Have you ever been told that listening to or playing secular music is wrong?
Have you ever wondered what it means to be a Christian musician in the “marketplace”?
We know it’s OK to play Christian music, but what about the Christian who sings, gigs, and performs in the “world”? What are the differences between a musician who is a Christian and one who is not?
Should there be a difference or is it simply a job for both?
This is the tension we find ourselves in today.
Will you help me tackle this?
Survey the mainstream music scene for a moment. We idolize artists and musicians for extraordinary talent while their lives are steeped in drugs and immorality. We pay tribute to their voice but not their heart.
The Tension
I’ve heard people say the only music a Christian should play is “Christian” music.
I’ve heard others argue that there’s no such thing as “Christian” music. Is there a “Christian” G chord?
I’ve heard people say that certain musical styles are simply not “Christian”.
I have friends who say they want to write “secular” music in order to reach the lost for Christ.
To confuse matters even more, I even know a few Christian musicians who drink a lot and smoke more than a barbecue in the summertime.
What should set us apart?
What are the marks of a true, Christian musician?
I’ll admit, staying true to Christ and the spread of the Gospel is not easy in the world of music. The roar of the crowd, the glare of the lights, the worship of talent – it can distract even the most holy among us.
It could be a matter of semantics here. It could be the same as asking, “What does it mean to be a Christian lawyer?”
But the war in this particular area of music and entertainment can’t be ignored.
These are questions I’m wrestling with and I believe need to be addressed. I’d love to hear your take in the comments as you help me craft this series.
Here are some topics I’d like to cover:
- The goal of a Christian musician
- The creativity of a Christian musician
- The evangelism of a Christian musician
- The influences of a Christian musician
- The future of Christian music
- Anything else?
First, the new header design looks great! I’m just now getting back into blog world after a few weeks off so this is the first I’ve seen it.
Secondly, I think this is going to be a great series. My perspective on the “Christian” label has changed over time.
One thing I’ll say is that the subject of your music doesn’t define the genre so I don’t like the “genre” of Christian rock, Christian contemporary, Christian etc… Just because an R&B singer sings about love, you don’t call him a “love” R&B singer as opposed to one who sings more about something else.
It’s not that the label isn’t useful to distinguish music that is focused only on one subject. It’s just that labels tend to paint broad strokes and that doesn’t always work.
Good point, Tony. Do you think we should do away with the “Christian” music label or does it still have a place?
I believe that the christian label is useful because you generally assign styles of playing to a specific genre. Like heavy distortion and power chords is almost a sure fire way to get “rock” displayed. Or at least a sub genre of rock, such as punk or grunge. So we think ok, this sounds like rock music. Now add the meanings or the lyrics. Arethey secular? Well if not, if there is a Christian view or moral or teaching then we call it Christian rock instead of having to call rock secular rock and at risk of mashing the two and confusing the meanings or teachings, it’s easier to identify the rock that isn’t secular and has biblical teaching as Christian rock. Especially since the goal isn’t to get rich and party or be remembered it’s is almost needed to say “Christian rock” show the negate or secular living.
I wonder if you can ask the question: is it possible to measure the heart of worship? And use that to explore if you someone can tell a clearly defined difference between a musician simply performing for the benefit of others and a gifted artist creating music and worshipping their God.
That’s a good question, Chris. I don’t know if it’s possible to measure someone’s motives. Only God can see that, but I’d be interested in what others think.
I think that’s my point. I would be interested what people think about it and their perspective because ultimately it doesn’t matter what the think. You are so right that only God can see those motives.
No one knows the inner thoughts of a man but that man’s spirit…
I would maintain that it often DOES matter what people think.
In the case of the book of James, one believer to another and the issue of accountability? Sure, what another person thinks does matter.
In the case of your perspective of someone you barely know, personally, on stage leading/performing worship/christian music? No, I don’t think it matters what another person thinks. It’s all about heart and Scripture reminds us that you don’t know my heart. Only I do and God does. The point of the original question would be to see how much people’s opinions play a role in this argument because hopefully some people would realize how much we cripple the Church by worrying and bickering over stuff like this.
Chris – At this point, I really don’t even remember exactly what I was thinking when I made this comment. I definitely wasn’t meaning to support the bickering 🙂 I support exploration in music, but it bothers me a good bit when Christians abandon their convictions and make music that PROMOTES things that God clearly doesn’t approve. And Katy Perry is the “biggest” example I can think of at this moment. Soteriology aside, I don’t think anyone could seriously propose that she’s doing great good for the Kingdom. I’m not out to judge her heart, but it makes me sad to see her falling farther and farther from the teachings of Christianity that she learned as a child. That’s an extreme example, perhaps, but sometimes I have to look at the extremes to understand the issues better.
I totally agree with the Katy Perry example. I think that is that ‘one’ instance where according to book of James, it does matter what we think. Because in that instance we know where her heart was and then by her actions we can tell where her heart is now.
I guess what “she” proves, for me, is that even Christians who don’t object at all to secular music being done by Christians would still have a “line” SOMEWHERE that they say “that’s too far.” At a certain level, we “understand” Christians who sing a little country about tears in beer and bluegrass about killing their wife and her lover or rock with a little party lifestyle, but I really believe that most, if not all, Christians would have to admit that there’s a line they feel shouldn’t be crossed. Sometimes the question is “where’s the line”, and that’s why I bring up an extreme. Alice Cooper is another tricky one – he openly claims that his art is just art, and doesn’t reflect his beliefs, which implies that he doesn’t feel it contradicts his profession of Christ, because he really doesn’t “mean it”. I would not be comfortable doing that myself. I think that’s a risky misunderstanding of Christianity (and I’m not quoting him, because it’s been a LONG time since I read about his thoughts). Most Christians have a hard time “accepting” songs about crazy Friday night sex, or Eminem killing his wife (although we don’t seem to mind it in bluegrass…), or Ozzy biting dove’s heads off, but we claim “legalism!!!” when someone says “Christian music only!”, or else we start fussing that “Christian” is a bad label to apply to music. We don’t like “family friendly”, we don’t like “Christian”, we don’t like “positive”, because we want to feel free to dabble a bit into the music of popular culture, and that’s complicated.
Great idea for a series! I’m not sure if you’ve heard Bob Kauflin’s quote on the “Christian musician”. I think it’s pretty helpful.
He says, “The call of the Christian musician is to make music faithfully, in any context, that reflects a grateful servant’s heart to the gospel.”
I like how he adds “in any context”…
Thanks for mentioning that, Nate. That’s incredibly helpful! Pointing our attention to “serving the Gospel” will help us decide if certain musical contexts are appropriate or not.
See, here is the problem…
You are saying…Christian Music…
Most people nowadays are going to scratch out Christian…and put Worship Music…I stongly believe there is a difference…
and I think this is going to come off as a shock to me…as well…
Lately i’ve been feeling that , “Worship Music…should stay in our Church walls….and “Christian Music” out there for the world to hear…
Christian Music with style and lyrics that shock…Just like Jesus Shocked…
Derek Webb is very good at this…so is Andrew Osenga.
Christian Music and lyrcis should be about what the bible says about SEX, Politics, Divorce, Judging others, Turning Cheeks, Feeding the hungery and helping the needy…ALL…ALL aspects of the christian life…not just worship…
They need to be good stories…of our life in Christ…
That is what will turn people to Jesus…
I like your thought process, Arny. It seems like worship music is becoming predominant in “Christian” music. Do you feel there’s a need for more Christian artists to write about the topics you mentioned?
I know you asked Arny, but I gotta say that I think there is a place for MUCH of this. Not only a place, but a need.
I like this distinction as well. Since Christ is Lord over all of life that means the goal of any Christian (not just a musical one) is to see Him glorified in all of life.
It stands to reason then that believing Creatives will write and create art that speaks to all of life as a natural response of being changed by the gospel.
I think where people tend to get confused is how all of this practically works out for a musician who may find him or herself in a wide variety of “non-Christian” contexts…
Is it Christian music? Or a Christian’s music?
I was referring more to a Christian’s music. Not all Christians write explicit “God” songs, you know? What distinguishes a “christian musician” or “christian artist” from the rest?
The Book of Esther does not mention the word “God” or any name of God…but it’s in the bible…
hmmmm…
This is a very interesting topic but also a very frustrating one. So far these comments are very good. I once read a Michael Gungor blog post about how he didn’t really like them being labeled a “Christian Band” because it seemed to close people’s minds off from their music.
My own personal opinion is that when people start to get upset about labels, they are starting to show their heart’s motives a little, even though only God truly knows their motives. I feel that we, as true followers of Christ, have to be associated with Him and that means going outside the camp and being made a spectacle alongside Him. Christian band/Worship band/ whatever you want to call it, if our lives are completely devoted to Christ and His mission, the great commission, then we will write music that glorifies Him. It’s so sad that so many bands are considered “Christian” and yet there may not be one thing distinctly Christian in their music whatsoever, maybe there are just no cuss words. I find that if a Mormon, Muslim, Orthodox Jew, or any other religion can sing through an entire “Christian” album without being offended because of its exultation of Christ for who He is, then it shouldn’t be labeled “Christian.” That annoys me beyond belief.
On a slight sidenote, I used to be very much into secular music and I would just say, “well I don’t listen to the lyrics.” I have recently watched a documentary on secular music called Hells Bells 2. It’s on youtube. You can watch the whole thing. I am very much in favor of straying away from all secular music if possible. I know that sounds like a religious-nut kind of thing to say, but you would be surprised what these artists believe and feel and write. If one does listen to secular music, which I still do sometimes, we have to be very discerning on what is coming into our minds while listening to it. Ok sorry for my rant. lol.
Chris, you’re taking quite a stand here! This definitely isn’t the popular opinion but I love your passion for Christ and for being set apart. Where do you draw the line with secular music? What’s too far?
Music that gives you a picture of God that is contrary to what the Bible reveals about God. Thats when secular music has gone too far. Any other stipulations put on it are probably wise but don’t carry as much power than that for me. Should we listen to music that is good but constantly has cuss words and makes us think of a sinful lifestyle of some kind? I don’t want to because it is hard enough to grow in my walk with Christ just by living in this world period. I don’t have to welcome all the roadblocks by listening to secular music, watching certain types of movies and tv shows, or reading certain magazines and books. Imagine the pro baseball player that eats garbage and never works out. How great are they going to be of an athlete? It’s the same for Christians. Live like the world, be entertained by the world, and never pray and read the Bible and we will not grow in our walk with Christ.
What about Christian music that doesn’t really present the whole Gospel? There’s so much of it that is total fluff and nothing of substance. Is that OK? Just picking your brain 🙂
Well, that’s where people like you and I come in. We see the lack of depth of the knowledge of God and the knowledge of our sin in most modern “christian” music. So since we see it, we have to write some new music don’t you think? Lol. I think any music/church/preacher/christian that does not present the whole counsel of God throughout their message is at best a little off and at worst anti-christ. A message that is all about the love of God and not His other characteristics is not edifying for the believer and gives a clouded message toward non-believers. Sadly, postmodernism has crept into our music and now christian music has very little claims of absolute truth.
Basically, not just with music but with all of life, I tend to only engage with things that stir my affections for Christ. Some/most popular Christian music does not do that for me. I listen to a ton of not-on-KLOVE christian music that does stir my affection for Christ so I listen. Shallow Christian music that has false theology gets grouped with the most heinous music out there for me. The secular/sacred divide is definitely interesting.
I’m a fan of a lot of things. But I’m much less comfortable these days with Korn, Metallica, Disturbed, etc. than I once was. I find that my spiritual interest level declines greatly when I let music that doesn’t reflect well on God get into my head. I’m not opposed to all secular, but neither do I need to let Ke$ha and Rihanna be the things that fill my head.
As a musician, it’s easy to get sucked into playing “the cool music that everybody knows.” If I learn something by Gaga and play it on piano, all the teenagers recognize it, even if they hate her. That makes me look more cool, but it gives them the thought that Gaga is a good thing. So, as a musician, I gotta ponder whether what I’m doing pulls people to Jesus or causes them to regard Him less highly.
Music is the most powerful cultural force we have. Therefore, Christians who are musically inclined have MUCH responsibility to use the ability wisely. Those who use it for personal gain with no regard to the impact they have on listeners, fans, and even other musicians are very unwise, in my opinion. Is it sinful for a Christian to play in a secular band? I don’t want to get wrapped up in that, but neither will I bless it. That musician needs to carefully, prayerfully, and HONESTLY look at their relationship with God and with music and realize the importance of it. And that’s not situational ethics – it’s personal responsibility. It’s simply not my place to dictate to another Christian how to live – that’s judgmental legalism. But if he’s simply running from the truth, he needs to reflect.
Some people view their playing of secular music as an outreach to unbelievers. I don’t know how that works for them, but I don’t want to judge it. Do you think it’s not possible to be effective in that realm?
I definitely believe it’s possible. I’m just not sure that it’s always “right”. Or always “wrong”. I don’t consider myself qualified to judge that. But I know that music has huge power and it sometimes moves the musicians just as much as it does the listeners.
For the most part, worship music is meant for believers. Nothing wrong with sharing Christian music with the world. But anyone who’s reasonable will admit: The “outreach” benefits of worship/Christian music are pretty slim, save for anecdotal exceptions that all of us could call from memory.
A timely and solid tune might spark someone who’s unsaved, but if that song is truly doctrinally solid, it’s more likely to turn that person off… most of what the world calls CCM has responded by moving closer to that world’s values and stylings. Worship music should stand firm against that–it’s for the worshippers who need that edification, singing in fellowship, etc. As worship ministry members, we need not look to the world (who, modern-day tolerance talk aside, would just as soon do without the Jesus crowd) for inspiration. James 4:4, I Cor 4:4. The congregation looks to us; who are we really looking to?
Every worship team leader and member knows that there are hundreds of Biblical verses on music. But they all seem to be focused on using the music to worship… not to pull in and convict new people. That’s what plain ole preachin’, and the average believer’s mandate to spread the word, are for. If I am wrong, I’m glad to be corrected.
Music carries a spirit with each particular song. While the notes, even progression may be the same between a secular and “christian” song, it should go without saying that the subject of the music greatly influences the atmosphere it creates.
I don’t think all or even most secular music is bad and, especially in the area of CCM, Christian musicians could learn some things from secular artists about creativity.
Good point, Paul. I agree with you. I think while secular music can be really bad, content-wise, Christian music can also be really lame with their content. We need to constantly push our creativity, as you mentioned.
I’ve gotta add my 2 cents here.
I’m getting very tired of labeling music as “Christian” or not. Frankly, God can move my heart just as well using a Matt Redman tune or a Pink tune. All the label does is tell Christian radio what they should push. (I’m probably being overly critical, so take that with a few grains of salt)
On the flip side, Paul is right, each song/piece/work carries a certain spirit with it. If it was made to glorify God then it will have a different air to it. So, Christian music should be made to glorify God.
So far I’ve said nothing of genre, even. You as the listener have to use (Godly) discernment. Most people just want rules, because that is easier. If cursing in the lyrics is a no go for you, then you shouldn’t listen to it. If the artistic value of the piece overrides some verbal miscues, then have at it.
One of my core beliefs is that we, as Christ followers with the power of the Holy Spirit living in us, should be out creating every other group on the planet. We’ve got the Creator-God as inspiration, you’d think we’d be able to come up with a few of our own ideas that are “original” compared to the world.
Bottom line, we as Christians should be making art. It needs to include both art to edify (like worship music) and art to reach (Christian artist in the mainstream) and even art to question. Go create!
Thanks for contributing, Josh! A couple questions. How do we most effective create art that reaches the lost? I don’t know if I’ve seen Christians do this well. They can definitely build big fanbases, but are they actually ministering the Gospel to people? And second, what do you mean by art that questions?
Love your thoughts, bro.
Easiest question first: Art that questions is something that makes you think about or question your status quo. Say, if I call myself a believer but do not help the poor, what am I? Something that forces you to ask yourself questions about who you are and what you believe. And I do mean in constructive ways, not things that are there just to sow doubt.
As to outreach art, I don’t know the best way to do that. There probably isn’t one best way. In my mind this is just good art with a Godly inspiration. People can see through things that are intended to draw them in with the express purpose to save them. I’d rather make art that is firstly good art and secondly points to my Creator. The art has never been a better outreach than my life story or my relationships with others have been.
I think that fanbases are more of a fan-generated thing than an artist thing. If you’re making art to generate a fan base, you’re way off track already to be making Christian art. Art ministers to each of us differently, which is why we have so many musical genres. God can use it all. I try to make something that would move me, or tell something that God’s been teaching/showing me.
Thanks for the discussion man, I love flexing some mental muscle with these!
You make some great points, Josh. Who would you say is a good example of someone doing “outreach” art? An artist making great art that is actually winning the lost. Any ideas?
Some examples off the top of my head would be Switchfoot or Skillet. They are played by mainstream radio because their stuff is good, but they are both Christian bands (I would consider). People will eventually ask where their songs spring from.
I can’t say for sure that people have been saved by listening to either of those bands specifically, but it is part of the journey.
http://www.nakedpastor.com
A great example for art that questions I think.
Thanks for the tip! Checked out the site and I’m diggin’ that.
I could probably write a novel on this subject. Having been involved in music for 25+ years, I have dealt with this whole mindset back when ‘christian rock’ was a new thing. It wasn’t enough that people thought the devil was in ‘secular’ music, they assumed he was in ‘christian rock’ too. It always amazed me how that folks felt they could judge the hearts of the band I was in just because of what type of music we played. You know how many times I heard the words, “that’s not christian.”
There were bands who took a lot of heat from christians because of writing rock songs with a christian message.
Through the years I have come to this conclusion. Music is music. Everyone has their favorite styles and artists. It has always amazed me how we strive to make our favorite artists ‘christian’ because maybe they mentioned God. At the end of the day, a person’s life should speak about who they are. Just because someone sings about God, it doesn’t mean they really know who He is.
As a worship leader and artist, I just want to write music that pleases God. You can call it anything you want. It doesn’t matter to me.
I read a quote recently that I really liked. I think it was attributed to Derek Webb. The quote was, ” To call anything other than a person a christian is only a marketing tool.” That may not be the exact quote, but I think it speaks volumes.
That is a great quote, Jeff. So “christian” doesn’t have to do with the content of the music but the lifestyle of the musician?
David…I guess for me it falls into the same area like someone calling themselves a ‘christian’ plumber or your #1 ‘christian’ car lot. In the Bible, the term was used by non-believers in order to describe those who follow Christ. I guess as people, we try so hard to label ourselves and our music, then turn around and talk about how we don’t want to be bound by labels. ‘Worship’,’Christian’ and ‘Secular’ are all just terms. How I allow God to use me and the music I write determines it’s place. If I used a wrench on a pipe at the church, does it become a ‘christian’ wrench. However, if I use it elsewhere, is it a ‘secular’ wrench. Shouldn’t I just use my ‘wrench’ as unto the Lord so that He receives the glory for it no matter the context? Just because I don’t write a song with God’s name, is it then a ‘secular’ song? My fear is that with the ‘christian’ label we are not reaching people where they are. We can possibly be closing a door that God may want wide open.
Wrenches and music aren’t the same thing. That’s a really inappropriate comparison. But. Wrenches do have labels. Craftsman, SnapOn, Mac. Pipe wrench. Adjustable wrench. Box end wrench. 1/2″ box end. 3/4″ socket with 3/8″ drive. Open end wrench. These are labels that describe the manufacturer, the appopriate use, and the actual size. So yes, labels are appropriate. If plumber says to plumber helper “Bring me my wrench”, that’s a pretty open ended statement when there are 100 different types and sizes of wrenches in the toolbox.
In my opinion, the use of the word “Christian” when placed with music is descriptive and helpful to someone who is trying to find a certain type of music.
Everything is not about evangelism. Not all music is evangelistic. We need to stop basing everything we say on whether or not it “reaches somebody”. There are many other facets to Christian life. (Or am I allowed to use that descriptor?)
Bernard…Sorry if I offended you. The thing is that though labels do help people find music, it can also be a turn off for some. Also, do you not think that all music reaches somebody somehow? I am a little confused that you feel that not everything is about evangelism. If our lives are not here to reach into the lives of others and help them find Christ, then what purpose do we serve?
Sorry – didn’t mean to sound offended! 🙂 I’m good.
As to your question – “If our lives are not here to reach into the lives of others and help them find Christ, then what purpose do we serve?” Wow, we might have to dig deep into some of “me” to really get there, but here’s my synopsis..
Yes, we are called to help others find Christ, but modern evangelicalism, in my humble and hopefully loving opinion, has made the terrible mistake of making the Great Commission into the Only Reason. I have heard it said MANY times that the only reason God leaves us here after salvation is to witness to others. Christ came to give life more abundant, hope, joy, peace, etc., to those who will believe and follow Him. We should not just be spouters of the Romans Road – we should be followers of Christ, enjoyers of the Saviour, lovers of God, givers to others, lovers of each other, lovers of God’s enemies… on and on. Doing these things should not just be done with the agenda of trying to save someone from hell, even though we wish that to happen as well. I shouldn’t trick a homeless person into coming to a shelter by offering him food and then forcing him to watch a scary movie about the end times. I should love that person, period, with no bait and switch / carrot on a stick / reward based tendencies.
Jesus loved people in a way that I am so totally incapable of doing, it seems. “We” have made His love into a “tough love” by saying “if I really love you, I’m going to tell you you’re going to hell” and then we walk away from that atheist because he doesn’t agree with us.
If we can learn to love people without the backdoor agenda of trying to convert them, letting God do the amazing stuff that HE does SO WELL, I believe that shallow Christianity will go the way of the horse and buggy and the world will stop seeing us as hateful, political, Crusaders out to force our way of living onto people who do not agree with us.
That’s what I mean when I say that. Hope that makes sense, and again, my apologies for sounding offended. Not at all.
Dude…I so remember the frightening ‘end times’ movie I saw as a child. It was creepy! I totally agree about loving as Jesus loved. I grew up when legalism was king. I wonder how many folks that were truly pushed away from God’s love by our confusion of who Christ really wanted us to be! Hopefully, we will all be the passionate loving people who can look beyond differences and love people the way He did. Awesome stuff!
Nice to see you guys are getting along now 😉
Didn’t realize we weren’t getting along??? Did I miss something?
Just a joke!
If you want to meet a group of people that have an awesome balance in the area of Christians reaching people with the gospel using secular music check out ‘The Lacks’. They draw audiences playing classic rock and share the gospel with them ending their shows with a time of worship (many times using outside venues). They also bring an incredible heart of worship when leading in that venue.
The reason I believe they are successful is that they really love people and desire people to come to know the God that they know. Their entire reason for the music is evangelism. Not that you have to have that as your motivation, but if a musician is a Christian follower it is a part of our mission to use our gifts (talents if you will) for God’s magnification.
Awesome. Thanks, Paul. I’ll check them out.
Mmmm…very interesting subject! I agree on many points that were mentioned like the lifestyle of the musician, the message of the music, the motive behind it, etc. My opinion is that music, whether secular or Christian, classical or modern is a spiritual thing – take a good ‘listen’ – Music moves people, inspire them, feed or influence their emotions, and often also their actions. There is nothing in the natural world that links us to the supernatural like music, and in such a complete and effective way.
The difference in all this is what we allow to influence us, whether it is rave to ‘freak out’ all night or ‘worship music’ that will make you break down, fall on your knees and cry out to the Living God.
I am moved by Jackie Evancho, that as a teen can sing classical pieces with the likes of Barbara Streisand, and I am moved by Chris Tomlin singing Indescribable, but not always in the same way.
It is true that what we listen to influences our thoughts – once again I would say that it is because music is a spiritual thing – and that means that we (Christians and Christian musicians) should be holy (set apart) and not conformed to this world (Rom 12:1,2)
Listening to secular music continuously can and will influence you in some way, just as Christian music would. Unfortunately the secular world has some of the greatest musicians and to get the message of salvation to the rest of the world we may need to get on that same level – the arrangements, the instruments, etc (not the music videos though!) – but also be distinctly different in our approach.
Worship in the church is important and absolutely necessary, but in promoting the message of salvation music should be an action of love and carried (I do not want to use ‘driven’) by the Holy Spirit.
Thanks for contributing, Gert. What do you think it would take for Christian musicians to get on the same creative level of the secular world while being different with our approach?
The problem with christian musicians vs secular musicians is that the secular world mostly have the money to pay for the best musicians and music directors. Although there is an enormous amount of talent among the christian people, the best may even submit to the call of what they can earn in stead of answering the call for worship!
I think that if we truly want to reach that level, the christian musicians should really study music as an art form and then go from there. Given the lack of funds this can again be a problem.
I don’t know if I agree about the funds thing. There are artists out there who are making great music without hiring top musicians and spending a fortune. Bon Iver, for example, is a secular artist who is making great music, but I wouldn’t say his production was expensive. I could be wrong.
Studying music as an art form, totally. I think we often take shortcuts with our music in order to do what’s popular.
Study music as an art form ABSOLUTELY. I think there are not enough church musicians with the educated depth required to lead and be effective. I am glad you said that Gert. Every time I have said it, somebody takes offense to it. I see David approved of the statement. Study ! Practice ! Work hard ! Pray Hard !
One thing I’d like to mention is that “Christian” music is sort of an American distinction. I remember reading an article somewhere that, in the UK, an artist is an artist. Period. Bands like Delirious get played on the radio station with bands like of Perl Jam (wow, I guess I just dated myself there a little…the point is still the same though). Here in the US, while we’re seeing more and more “Christian” artists in the mainstream music scene, it is still very divided. For me, the big problem is that the “Christian” label covers so many styles and genres. When you say metal or alternative, or country, most people know what you’re talking about right away. “Christian” music, however, can be any of those (and more, obviously…). Just listen to any of the popular “Christian” radio stations and you’ll get a mix of styles (usually leaning towards adult contemporary/modern country but, that’s a separate issue….)
@Ken: In South Africa Christian Music is commonly referred to as ‘Gospel’, which is actually a genre in its own right. The different styles cater for the taste of people, I even heard a great praise song with a reggae beat! All to the glory of God.
I once read about natives in Africa who objected to some types of ‘Christian Music’ that the missionary’s children were listening to, because of the drum beats and patterns. They said that those beats were used to call upon the spirits of their ancestors, who they then, after hearing about the Living God were not allowed to contact or worship!
This discussion can become quite controversial.
Hmmm…I’m wondering if the term “Gospel” is a better word than “Christian”?
“Gospel” music evokes one of two connections, both of which are purely stylistic. I think the use of that term would just confuse the issue further.
I think we just need to define our labels better. That which we called a rose by any other name would still smell just as sweet, to mangle Shakespeare.
Gert makes an interesting point that I’ve been thinking about with musical influences. What influences should a Christian musician, ie. musical styles, artists, allow in their life? Does this have an impact on the musician and/or on the effectiveness of their ministry? Does it vary from person to person? Are there things we should avoid because they may be a stumbling block to others? Are there certain types of “secular” music that are worse than others?
Or, another one: are there certain genres that should never be considered “Christian” even if the lyrics are about Christ in a positive way?
I feel that there should be some ‘connection’ with the world in order to draw the lost, but if there is, where do you draw the line? I know about a group of musicians in South Africa that take the melodies (or backtracks) of popular songs and then change some words to make it “Christian.” I personally do not like this, as there will always be the worldly connotation in my mind. You also get congregations that sing songs like “morning has broken” by Cat Stevens because they hear the word ‘god’ in it and then presumes the song gives glory to God. On the other side of the spectrum, the melody for “Jesu, joy of mans desiring” (Bach)was used in a video game that I used to play when I was a kid – so where do you draw the line?
The problem starts when we try to limit the music to what we think is right – if you look at it critically, we may come back to the point where only the Psalms may be used in Church for example! That may even take us back to where the only instrument that is allowed is say, an organ! It will be like going back to the dark ages!
I believe that there will always be differences regarding music, as there is with the different interpretations of what ‘truth’ is or should be. So I say: We’ve been set free, not to sin, but free from the law and to ‘find’ the Father’s will and purpose in our lives. If we find it we can do whatever we WILL, because we will be doing HIS will – if you get my meaning?
I think it comes down to discernment. Which is not an easy answer, because it can be different for different people.
But you said “If we find it we can do whatever we WILL, because we will be doing HIS will”, and I think that hits the nail on the head.
Yea, I wouldn’t say there are hard and fast laws here. I think it’s different things for different people. A good test is whether what you are listening to is violating your conscience. If so, to you it might be wrong to listen. But what is bad for you might not be for me, or vise versa. Does that make sense?
I love your questions!
I’m a little overwhelmed with all these comments but here goes mine. I believe if your heart is 100%, 100% surrendered to God and you hear His voice in all you do, anything you do, will be for His Glory. And I dare to say that God may even lead you to do some things that will definitely shake the religious.
But is it possible, even if you’re 100% sold out to God, that you’ll stumble? Is it possible to slip and NOT do something for His glory? I would be hesitant to trust that everything I do is for His glory, though I strive for that.
Just thinking out loud 🙂 AND it’s never too late to join the discussion!
I agree with you David. Even as Christians striving to glorify God, our hearts are still deceitful as Jeremiah talks about. Even our best intentions still are plagued by the flesh that is still apart of our non-glorified bodies. Praise God that Jesus paid for all our sins, even the ones that nullify our “righeous deeds” and render them as nothing compared to Christ’s true righteous deeds. Praise God that my salvation is based on His perfect obedience and not my constantly flawed striving towards it.
David, of course it is possible to slip and stumble,but isn’t that why we have leaders in our lives to help us when situations get out of hand.
I would be lying if I told you everything I do is 100% for the Glory of God, it is what I’m going for though.
My goal as a musician is to show the World who God really is through my personal life(marriage,familly) and my musicality. I believe a strong foundation has a lot to do with it all
Yep
I’m with Khamille…these comments got overwhelming! I read this when there only a few comments and wanted to think about my answer. Wow! Ok, so I pretty much agree with all that’s been said about the basic points of “Christian” music – the heart, evangelism, etc.
But I’d like to throw this out there…what about style of said Christian music?
For the most part I’ve stopped listening to Christian music altogether. When I do listen it’s to oldies like Bryan Duncan or Rich Mullins.
Today’s Christian music all sounds the same…bass, guitar and drums. It’s all pop-style. I also love classic rock, jazz, swing, country, crooners like Andy Williams and Dean Martin, or alternative. What about groups like Red?
So is it bad for me to listen to Andrea Bocelli sing about Italy? Is it wrong for me to listen to Louis Prima sing about Pennies from Heaven? I love polkas, Mariachi bands and show tunes. Are they secular because they don’t glorify God?
I know this doesn’t so much speak to what it means to be a Christian musician, but like somebody else mentioned I would like to see the art of music be more creative. If we have the mind of Christ and He’s God and He’s creative, why does all the Christian music sound the same?
Ugh…I could write a whole novel. For the record, I spent almost 4 years in our church orchestra, learning about and leading our congregation in worship as well as Christmas and Easter ministry events. While it’s not my profession, I understand what it’s about.
I agree.
“… If we have the mind of Christ and He’s God and He’s creative, why does all the Christian music sound the same?”
All the above comments just prove to me that there is a hunger for true worship music, something that is totally different. When I listen to the music of popular artist – or most of them – there is a unique way in how they present their music. Arrangements are extraordinary! There is emotion, there is passion.
We should be the leaders in musical excellence – Maybe we have not grasped the true meaning of our inheritance or having ‘the mind of Christ and know all things!’
Yes!
This is the kind of community I want to find. I want to be stretched by others and stretch others in their art.
That’s actually the type I’d consider a “Christian musician/artist”.
Glad you’re connecting here, Josh.
I think it really comes down to what is the music doing to you or for you. If its altering your image of God in an unbiblical way then I wouldn’t listen to it. If its not then ok. For the record I listen to bands like For Today and Hope For the Dying which are God-centered Christ-exulting Christian metal band. Check em out.
For Today is the bomb!
Kathy, why do you think Christian music tends to all sound the same? Why are we lacking the creativity that a lot of secular music seems to have?
This is a great thread, I’m really enjoying this. But, to answer your question, I think the reason christian music isn’t always creative is because it’s trying too hard to fit into a “label”, like all these posts have been talking about, or a certain “genre”. When I sit down and play guitar, I don’t think, “OK I gotta try really hard to write something REALLY Christian-riffic right now… Something that could go next to Jeremy Camp or Sidewalk Prophets on the radio, but something with my own little touch and something that’s super catchy that I know hip church people will like to sing along to”… That thought doesn’t usually enter my mind, and when it does, it’s debilitating (has been so far, anyway.) Originality and creativity are synonymous in my mind, and C.S Lewis said it well when he said, “Even in literature and art, no man who bothers about originality will ever be original: whereas if you simply try to tell the truth (without caring twopence how often it has been told before) you will, nine times out of ten, become original without ever having noticed it.”
Music is something that kind of flows out of you, especially if your a musician. When it’s coming from you, and it’s natural, that’s when you enjoy it most (at least I do, anyway.) Now the dilemma is that we can’t simply let our hearts go loose and put out anything it wants without direction and purpose, such as preaching the gospel. So, in my probably poor and totally open to criticism type of opinion, it takes discipline to know how to direct your passions of music in order to create music that glorifies God yet is not confined to popular opinion or what has been done before. I guess the biggest problem for me is starting to get wrapped up in music and loose sight of who your music is supposed to glorify…
This topics are really important, I’d love to keep learning and reading all the opinions and brainstorming of all..
I maybe chiming in late on this discussion but to the original question about a Christian’s music and its place in the world. Two years ago I was challenged by hearing a story of a Worship Pastor, who before becoming the Worship Pastor at his church, was encouraged to shepherd in his local context. For three years, he played in his community at bars and venues. By time he came on staff at his church leading worship, he already made a name for himself in his local community as a great musician that other musicians sought after for advice and affirmation. This totally changed my view of what it meant to play music and being a christian.
I currently lead a band with four other guys who on any given Sunday will either be leading Worship or playing in the worship band. We are beginning to play throughout the Southeast in different bars and venues. We are not a Christian band. Our direct influence to our sound comes from Radiohead and Mutemath. Though our lyrics don’t scream Christianity, if you are a Christian and listen to our lyrics you will relate. Over the past 2 years of playing music like this, we have had opportunities to share the Gospel in incredible ways. Like the story of the Talents, (personally) I don’t think our talent in music should stop at the doors of our church building. Be involved locally. Get connected with musicians in your community. And be real to them. By being obedient to God, the Gospel will be taught.
Last thing to add, look up Dustin Kensrue of Thrice. He plays in a secular scene but does not hold the punches when it comes to the Gospel. He also leads worship at Orange County Mars Hill.
Kenneth, this is awesome. I love how you’re doing both – staying rooted in and serving a local church AND reaching out to share the Gospel with your music. Look forward to checking out your music!
It could be like a ven diagram. One circle is the musician, the other is the christian, and it can overlap some or all the way. Like the physical and spiritual worlds/planes. In the physical world we can read a book (bible), but in the spirit world are forces and battles, and when they overlap, a person can be filled or convicted or oppressed or blind to truth (His living Word). Could not a person sing for his supper, sing a song to his creator in thanks for his supper, and eat his supper without singing, all without contradicting the essence and reality of what he is?
I know….too simple, right?
I’m very thankful that Jesus only looks at the heart. Music is a WORK of art.. Just like carpentry is the work of a trade.. Human services is work for the public.. With that said.. “you will know know them by the fruit they bear.” i have a problem thinking that when Jesus was hanging out with sinners he was bashing them.. Or that he was unwilling to eat their food..etc. We should all be very proud of the ambassadors for Christ that are in the secular field. They may not be winning souls like billy graham.. But if that rd takes them to a place that they will in passing win only 1 soul
To Christ then non a drop of their labor was in vain.. Please please please take the squareness out of Christianity. The world shuns the Christians enough.. Let’s do not shun them back. Let’s reach them at all cost. Jonah was probably extra shocked that God wanted him to go to Ninevah too.. HE IS IN CONTROL
Some excellent info on this site, by some very insightful people. I’ve been a working musician all my life, gigging steadily since I got out of high school in the 70’s. I’ve literally played more gigs in more places than I’ll ever be able to remember. It’s how I paid my way in life, kept a roof over my head and food on the table. I usually play popular covers from many genres of music, and still to this day play gigs and supplement my family income by providing music for private events.
Though I’ve struggled with being a Christian that plays secular music, I eventually realized that it’s just a job and has to be kept in that context for me. There’ve been times when gigs weren’t as plentiful and I’ve had to work construction jobs on the side, and some of the people I worked around were much more foul-mouthed and anti-God than anyone I’ve met at the events I play music for.
So to me, in the end a job is a job (within the honest parameters of God and man). There’s no such thing as “Christian Construction”, “Christian Mechanic”, “Christian Truckdriver” or whatever, but there are musicians who have received Christ as their Lord and Savior, many of whom continue to work full time selling their musical talent for profit. Scripture supports using your talent to put bread in your mouth. That’s all the whole working world is – millions of people selling their talent in a particular area of commerce to provide for themselves through various aspects of business.
I’ve noticed there aren’t websites and forums concerned with, “Is It Okay For A Christian To Work In Admin?” or some other business. And I personally know that working Admin in an office is one of the most hateful, jealous, backbiting, dirty-dealing kind of jobs imaginable. Everyone in an office secretly eyes each other suspiciously, and if someone screws up they immediately try to set up or frame someone else for their own screw-up. They’ll lie to their supervisor, falsify documents and do whatever it takes to deflect the heat from themselves. So, should Christians be working in the Admin business?
Where’s the forum for “Is It Okay For Christians To Work In Construction?” Again, personal experience – some of the worst cursing, lewd insinuations, bitter, ungrateful things I’ve heard were on a construction site. The Spirit inside me was vexed with the constant stream of language and anger coming from some of those people. So, should Christians be working in the field of Construction?
This argument could go on for every employment field there is with the same results. And don’t think it’s just secular employment either…I know folks that work on staff at churches; some of the things they’ve told me that go on is too nasty to repeat. And if you consider working at a job that’s extremely influential, wouldn’t the church take precedence over music any day?
In summary, as a musician always conduct yourself professionally; use the wisdom God gives you; speak politely to everyone; collect your pay at the end of the night; give God thanks for the work and move on. Along with serving in the music minstry at my church for 15 years, this is about all I personally know to do as a musician.
Thanks and I wish you all great success in The Lord!
Thank You for your comment, I was wondering how to handle all the God- hater types in music, I think you have the right perspective.
diana
I’m in a predicament that is related to this issue.
I’m a musician (trumpeter) in my region and I’ve been playing in a “Christian” mariachi for nine years. We used to call it a “ministry”. We started when we were little and when we had no care in the world, in comparison to the adult life. Then, we were not paid. But now we are paid. Not that much though. Throughout the years, by the Grace of God, I’ve become first call for a lot of musical groups and events like wind ensembles, pit bands for musicals, etc. I was recently discovered as a mariachi trumpet player by one of the best “secular” mariachis in the southwest and they’ve offered me a “gig” as one of their own. As most of you are reading I’m sure the stereotypical image of a mariachi popped up in your head. You know, five fat guys at a bar singing songs about getting drunk and heartbreak and such. Well these guys don’t perform in those venues. The shadiest venue they perform in is a Mexican restaurant in which they serve beer. And their songs are all really happy songs and/or love songs with no R Rated innuendos. But it’s not music that directly and deliberately glorifies God. I personally don’t see anything wrong with that but I can name a few people that do. What do y’all think?
Don’t let the “secular” title stop you. All of us do work that isn’t “deliberately” glorifying God. Painters and accountants don’t always have religious positions, but no one thinks that is “secular.” If it’s a passion God gave you, and by doing it you are content that you are not dishonoring God, then you should go ahead with it. You’ll never make everyone happy with your decisions. Once you start worrying about every little thing that someone else may think is wrong, you stop living your life for His Glory and you start living your life for man’s approval. Also, if we never live any life outside of our “holy huddle” then no one receives the Gospel. Pray and ask God if He wants you to take the gig, but I think it would be worth considering.
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This is interesting. Exactly the issue I am dealing with right now. One of my pastors is trying to strong-arm me into quitting my gigging because he considers it to be worldly music and antithetical to the faith. I won’t lie and say that I don’t feel the pressure. But at the same time I disagree with him strongly and I think one’s concept of worldliness needs to be informed by the biblical ideas and not just by the fact that something is said or done by someone who is not a christian. If the song violates the ethical/moral principles in scripture (rightly interpreted) then we should not sing it or play it. If it doesn’t then we are free to enjoy it. Our lives as Christians are connected in all points to the gospel but the gospel and the bible are not the totality of our lives. We still have to deal with stuff and many songs reflect the journey we all take in our daily lives. And They should be celebrated. They should be enjoyed by all.
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Hello everyone! I found this feed because wanted to know how to be a Christian and hang out at bars, festivals, etc… and be able to relate to the lost I see all around me. My biggest problem is most of the musicians I know are vicious God- haters. I hear conversations every time I’m out that just grieve my spirit. I don’t say much because I know that the atmosphere is one of arrogance and pride anyway so I just try to love and be kind (although I’m really angry how they treat my Lord). I know they see my face-book posts that have scripture or something about the Lord in them. I’m pretty much ignored by them other than talking very small talk. I love music, songwriting, but I just don’t worship it and they act like I’m crazy for it. Besides that, I’m older so I don’t think they feel comfortable chatting me up. Still, I feel pulled to go out and be there to at least be a light. I feel this tension of how much I should say, what I should sing all the time. Please give me advise. I feel like the lonely sheep in the den of wolves.
This is Diana again,
I just wanted to add that Lucinda Williams is my favorite artist. She’s gritty and raw and I love most of her lyrics, which I know are far from “Christian”. I wish I could be so raw in my writing, but I’m always pulled to make my lyrics a little more palatable for my Christian friends but she writes the way I feel.
Christian music is music that has been written to express either personal or a communal belief regarding Christian life and faith. Common themes of Christian music include praise, worship, penitence, and lament, and its forms vary widely across the world.
Hey there. I think what this really has to do with is the heart of the individual in question. In my understanding through having a true relationship with Christ over the years, through struggles, hardships, attacks of all kinds etc. and still loving my God dearly, it really has to do with belonging.. What I mean by that is, choice first and foremost. We all make choices. Some are called to be certain places and do certain things while others are not. This doesn’t make some elite and others not, but what it does is separate those who God can work through better because God assigned them a particular gift. I do believe in gifts. While anyone CAN do something, not everyone should. That being said, some were called to minister. What is ministry? I don’t know what the “church” says it is, but from my heart that God gave me, ministry means to be able to gently touch a persons soul with the hands of God. When we get intimate like this.. truly selfless like this.. it naturally takes you to a place where you just don’t want to hear or create anything secular. The church is sometimes too rote in their understanding of these things. So when a true minister is in a place like this, that is the outcome. It is not some religious, stance with your face twisted up, behaving holier than thou. To sum up, I don’t believe all worldly music is bad and or has demonic influence, yet there is a place one naturally gravitates to, where ministering is what they are called to do and as a result, listening to Michael Jackson, Nickelback and Shania just take a backseat because God’s presence feels so good and the need to touch a heart is too beautiful to risk faultering on. At the same time, throwing on a little MJ for fun at say a bbq or Brian Mcnight when with the wife, isn’t the end of the world. God gave those people beautiful gifts as well. Discretion must be used as some music is infused and I think the amount of listening also needs to be monitored and home must always be on the compass.
Hi,
I am a Christian artist doing secular music as well and I had been struggling with the same problem over the last year. Unfortunately, this is not something I would trust pastors or church leaders to answer at this point simply because it is indeed a path less traveled and often they do not have any real-life examples to base their advice on. I believe it is up to us to find out for ourselves. I have straightened out my thoughts mostly now, after much prayer and discernment, so I just like to put it up here.
To go to a really fundamental level of this question, we have to ask ourselves, how is this any different from other professions out there? Lawyers, Engineers, Architects, Teachers etc. You can argue it however you want, but, it always remains that you will be assisting the organisation to achieve its secular mission, a worldly thing. We are called to be in this world, not of this world. I don’t believe Christian musicians need to make Christian music just as we do not expect Christian architects to be designing churches. How would you even want to relate or impact people’s lives if you do things meant to be used only inside the Church. Other than working in a Christian organisation, being in a secular workplace would be the alternative Christian thing to do, so that He may be known to the world, as long as it does not go against God. (So “professions” like prostitution are not an option). Music is not inherently sinful in any way. In fact, music was created by God. Thus, as long as your music is not profane or does not glorify fleshly desires of any sort, there’s no reason to think it any different.
Then there’s the argument that secular music causes people to sin; people get drunk and do ungodly things listening to music. Well, then we should seriously reconsider this whole capitalism thing itself because it is essentially the idolization of money, leads people to covetousness and what not. Like I’ve mentioned, music itself is not inherently wrong in any way. My music inspires by telling a story, just as what a good book or movie does. There are many people like myself who actually enjoy and write music just for its beauty and how it glorifies God, even if there are no “God” references. However, man has once again perverted something God created perfectly, into sin. This is why many ignorant Christians still group secular music and sin together, even if it is not always a causation.
I don’t believe that to God, there are any genre boundaries. Electronic, rap, country, rock, classic whatever. Is going to Taylor Swift’s concerts different from going to an electronic music festival to see you favorite composers/DJs perform, or how about a symphonic orchestra? Humans love attaching meanings to things just so our brains can have an easier handle on them. Let’s say I remove a certain rap element in a “rap” song with some “classical” music. Where do you place this now? If modern instruments like synthesizers/e-guitar are considered “non-Christian”, then pianos should also be disqualified from the “Christian” instrument category because it is in fact a relatively recent invention. How bout things like pagan/demonic roots, like trance music or even some forms of meditation music? Then, this yoga analogy should be a good read: http://www.relevantmagazine.com/life/whole-life/features/23243-is-it-okay-for-christians-to-do-yoga
I’ve got people saying my taste of music is “questionable” as a Christian. But their arguments soon crumble when they realize that distinctions between “Christian” and “non-Christian” styles are just concepts made up by us humans and have no biblical basis.
Next would be, “non-Christians around you will see you as ungodly if you associate yourself with secular music. You cannot be an effective witness”. Once again, I do not subscribe to such human ideas and I don’t believe that I need to justify myself to anyone other than God. To me the truth of the matter, like I have explained earlier, is more important than such trivial problems. Furthermore, I believe there are so many other ways you can show God’s love to non-Christians.
To sum up, the most important thing is to discern what God’s purpose is for you wherever you find yourself in. I’m at a stage where it is more than just the music I write/perform people are interested in, but my lifestyle as well (By the grace of God :)). How do you set yourself apart from the world? Do you drink, smoke or do drugs like most in the industry? How do you point people to God with your art, even though it does not contain “Jesus” references in it? Are you putting in top excellence into every piece of music? How do you impact the people you come to meet at work? Event organisers, record companies etc. We live in a dark world, especially so for the entertainment industry. Who else is going to reach out to hardened hearts, but us? C.S. Lewis wouldn’t have reached such a wide audience with his Christian flavored, secular work Narnia, if he did not make it accessible to the larger audience. If you have influence and are respected, whether you are in some high management position in an organisation or a musician as myself, it is probably wiser to use it to bring the kingdom of God on Earth, rather than to abandon it.
I think many faithful Christian musicians are to afraid to take this path because it is considered taboo in Christian circles, or are afraid they may backslide and follow worldly ways. But I say that as a Christian, you will probably face the same challenges and temptations anywhere else. I do hope this post will inspire people to take a leap of faith and see where God takes you on this journey to reach the world through the beauty of music.
Some examples of prominent Christians doing secular music for y’all to check out – Owl City, Kaskade, Skillet, Anberlin etc.
Feel free to post your thoughts 🙂
Regards,
Gibson.
can we just liv everything for GOD
Hmmmmmm, this is quite complicated. but the truth be told, the heart behind the music is what really matters. I can say christians who sing what is not christ- centered have lost purpose and probably are into music as a way of meeting ends means.
I’m not disputing the fact also that, there are good music that are centered on morals, yet not associated with Christians.
My take is that wherever you stand let people know, don’t hide under so called christian music just because you want to belong to a particular genre . let it be from a heart that loves God and want to promote the Gospel, also to bless lives through good music. Universally, it has been accepted there’s such referred to as christian music because their music is all about the life in Christ Jesus.