Beyond Sunday Worship

Worship Podcast

Archives for January 2026

#380: Ministry For The Down & Out, The Discarded, And The Underdog with Calvin Nowell

This is an episode for the ministry underdog. There are some unwritten, unhelpful rules about worship ministry and Christian music that we need to say out loud. You’re too old. Your voice isn’t strong enough. You’re too overweight. Your style isn’t what we’re going for. You can’t be the face of the ministry.

Of course, we don’t say these things out loud, most of the time. But it appears that too often our modus operandi is to be attractive and impressive, beautiful. How are we going to sell the most records? Who is going to draw people to our church? The longer we operate with these cultural values, the more we sideline great leaders and harm them in the process. I’m not advocating anyone could be a worship leader. Obviously, there are skill standards. But how far is too far when it comes to talent, image, beauty, and age? At what point have we abandoned kingdom values for profit, power, and influence?

Calvin Nowell is my guest today. Calvin is a songwriter, worship leader, and singer who has sung with many of the top names in Christian Music. Calvin also leads a diverse music collective called Aware Worship that is bringing awareness to the people side of ministry.

This is vulnerable conversation. We talk about the dark sides of the industry, stigma in ministry, supporting the underdog, and looking for Jesus on the margins. Tears were shed. The presence of God was felt. Trust me, you will be encouraged.

My name is David Santistevan. As always, thanks for listening. You can reach me anytime at david@beyondsundayworship.com.

Topics Covered:

  • Calvin’s journey as a worship leader
  • The reality of starting music later in life
  • Why we shouldn’t be afraid of frequent new songs
  • Why diversity is important
  • How the Christian music industry needs to change
  • Why God still has a plan for you
  • The struggle of weight and image as a worship leader

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!

#379: When Worship Gets Political with David Gate

It’s becoming almost a tradition that when I need to talk about something really difficult, I invite David Gate on the Podcast. David is a former worship leader, recording artist turned author who has a keen eye about what is happening in the world. And he’s not afraid to tell it like it is. David wrote an article recently called “The Soundtrack For American Fascism is Worship Music” – I know, pretty intense. But also not entirely hard to believe, if you’re paying attention.

In this conversation we talk about it – how worship music can be co-opted to serve anti-Christian political agendas. How easy it is for our Christianity to become enmeshed with our politics to the point where we can’t tell where one begins and the other ends. We look historically at how Hitler co-opted the music of Wagner to serve his political aims. How worship music can be manipulative in healthy and unhealthy ways. We talk about choosing songs and what to do if you’re tired of mainstream, popular worship music. The conversation ends with some music recommendations and thoughts on David’s creative process.

This is a difficult chat, but a great one. You’ll be uncomfortable frequently. You may disagree some. But I guarantee it will challenge your thinking and improve your ministry life if you allow it.

This is David Santistevan. You can email me any time at David@beyondsundayworship.com. As always, thanks for listening.

Topics Covered:

  • When David first noticed the politicization of American worship music
  • What David liked and disliked about the worship industry, as an insider
  • The musician similarities and differences between worship music and Wagner
  • How Hitler co-opted Wagner to serve his political agenda
  • Why it’s not crazy to consider how worship music can serve authoritarian regimes
  • Paying attention to how worship music can manipulate a room
  • The difference between empathy and worship
  • Healthy and unhealthy triumphalism in church
  • Debrief of the Charlie Kirk memorial and what we can learn from it
  • Pro football/College football and racism
  • What to do if you can’t stomach singing popular worship music in church
  • A true definition of Christian persecution

Resources Mentioned:

Show Sponsor:

This episode is sponsored by Planning Center, an all-in-one church management software made to help churches help people. You can organize your ministries and keep everyone on your team communicating and aligned around what’s going on.

As a worship leader, good communication is key to building a strong worship team. You can cultivate relationships while ensuring everyone has what they need to successfully prep for your services.

But why not take it up a notch using the chat feature?

Built right into the Services mobile app—which, by the way, you should totally download if you haven’t already—chat helps you coordinate all the service details with your team. Plus, you can have fun while doing it!

No more juggling emails, group texts, and multiple apps to ensure your whole team is aligned. Chat will simplify your communication in one convenient place through the Services mobile app. And everyone can ask questions, request prayer, or join the banter in real-time with one another.

The really cool part about chatting with your teams? Team members are dynamically added or removed from conversations as availability changes!

So if your original bass player suddenly declines (why is it so hard to find a bass player, anyway?), your newly scheduled bass player is automatically added to the chat conversation.

All of your chat conversations stay in sync. No more outdated group threads or irrelevant messages! So what are you waiting for? Download the Services app and start chatting!